Section XVIII

Sri Ramakrishna with Narendra, Doctor Sarkar, Girish Ghosh and other Bhaktas

Conversation and joy

Chapter One

In samadhi during the joy of devotional music

Next day, half past five, Tuesday, 27 October, 1885.  Narendra, Doctor Sarkar, Shyam Basu, Girish,
Doctor Dacouri, the Younger Narendra, Rakhal, M. and others have come today.  The Doctor feels Sri Ramakrishna’s pulse and prescribes the medicine.

Thakur talks about his pain and takes the medicine.  After that the Doctor says, “Now you may talk to Shyam Babu while I leave.”

Sri Ramakrishna and another bhakta suddenly speak up, “Would you like to hear some song?”

The Doctor — You become emotional so easily ­ you have to control your bhava.

The Doctor sits down again.  Narendra begins to sing in a sweet voice.  Side by side tanapura (a stringed musical instrument) and mridanga (drum) are being played upon beautifully.  He sings ­

Song 1

Wonderful and infinite is the world created by You. This universe of Yours is the storehouse of beauty.

Thousands of stars shine like a gold necklace of gems. Innumerable are the moons and suns.

The earth is adorned with wealth and corn, full indeed is your storehouse.

O the Great Lord, innumerable people sing this song ceaselessly saying, ‘Hail, hail.’

Song 2

O my Mother! Thy formless beauty shines in dense darkness. So the yogi meditates in the mountain cave.

In deep infinite darkness, on the waves of maha-nirvana float incessantly eternal peace and joy.

Assuming the form of Mahakala drapped in darkness O Mother, who art Thou seated alone in samadhi?

At the lotus of Thy protecting feet flashes the lightning of love intense. And boisterous laughter adorns Thy face divine.

The Doctor says to M., “It is dangerous for him.  It is not right to sing this song.  If he goes into bhava, it can be dangerous for him.”

Sri Ramakrishna asks M. what the Doctor is saying.  M. replies, “The Doctor is afraid lest you should go into bhava samadhi later on.”  While he says so, Sri Ramakrishna goes a little into bhava.  Seeing towards the Doctor and folding his hands says he, “No, no. Why should I go into bhava?”  However, while saying so he goes into bhava samadhi ­ his body still, eyes fixed, no speech.  He looks like a wooden statue, unaware of the external world.  His mind, intellect, ego and consciousness ­ all looking inward. He is no longer the same person.  Narendra continues singing the sweet song with his melodious throat ­

What an enchanting beauty, what a charming face I see!

The Lord of my soul has entered my humble hut. The spring of my love is welling forth.

O, the beloved Lord of my heart, say what treasure shall I offer You?

O, accept my soul, my life; what more can I say? Accept whatever I have, accept everything from me.

Song ­

O gracious Lord, what happiness can there be in life if the bee of the soul is not lost in Your lotus feet forever?

What can I gain from wealth limitless if I don’t try to find the supreme gem?

I don’t wish to look at the tender face of the child if I can’t find a glimpse of Your moonlike loving face.

Moonlight has no meaning for me. I see it complete dark if I don’t see Your loving moonlike face in that moonlight.

Even the pure love of the chaste wife is stained if the gold of her love is not set with the peerless gem of Your love.

O Lord! Doubt bites me continuously like the deadly poisonous snake diluting my love for You.

O Lord, what more can I say to You? You are the precious jewel and gem of my heart, the abode of joy.

Hearing this piece of song, ‘The pure love of the chaste wife,’ the Doctor exclaims with tearful eyes “Aha! Aha!”

Narendra sings another song —

Oh, how long will it take to be mad with that ecstatic love, when wishing for nothing else I shall chant the name of Hari and tears will stream down my eyes?

When shall my prana (life breath) and mind be pure. When shall I visit the Vrindavan of love, when shall the bonds of the world break and the collyrium of knowledge will drive away the darkness from my eyes.

When shall this iron body turn into gold by the touch of touchstone divine?

When shall I have the vision of a universe permeated with God and wallow on the path of bhakti?

O, when shall I be free from ritual worship? When shall the pride of family and caste go?

O, when shall I be free from fear and shame? When shall I be free from the pride of customs of society?

With the dust of the feet of bhaktas rubbed all over my body and with the bag of perpetual dispassion around my shoulders, when shall I drink the water of love from the Yamuna river of divine love with the palms of my hands?

Maddened with love when shall I now weep, now laugh and now swim in the sea of Sachchidananda?

Intoxicated myself when shall I intoxicate others and constantly roam about at the feet of the Lord?

Chapter Two

Discussion on jnana and vijnana ­
vision of Brahman

In the meanwhile Thakur Sri Ramakrishna regains outer-consciousness. The song has ended. Now starts a very interesting talk for the common man, the scholar and the fool, the child and the old, man and woman, elder and small, high and low.  All in the assembly are spellbound.  All are gazing at the beautiful face in front.  Where is that terrible pain now?  His face is still like a blooming lotus as if a divine light is emitting from it.  Now addressing the Doctor, Thakur says, “Give up shyness; what is there to be ashamed of repeating the name of God?  ‘Shame, hatred and fear do not let one attain Him.’ That I am a big man and I dance uttering ‘Hari, Hari.’ When big people hear of it, what will they think of me? It would be a shame if they were to say, ‘I say brother, the Doctor was dancing uttering Hari, Hari,’ please give up such an idea.”

The Doctor — I don’t think that way. I don’t care what others say.

Sri Ramakrishna — You have too much of it. (All laugh.) Listen, go beyond knowledge and ignorance.  Then alone you will be able to know Him.  Knowledge of various kinds is ajnana. The pride of learning is also ajnana.  ‘God pervades in all’ ­ this conviction is jnana.  Knowing Him intimately is called vijnana.  Say, a thorn has pricked into your foot. You need another thorn to take it out.  When you have taken out the pricked thorn, you throw away both the thorns.  To remove the thorn of ajnana (ignorance) you have to first bring in the thorn of knowledge.  Then both the thorns of knowledge and ignorance have to be thrown away.  He is beyond jnana and ajnana.  Lakshman said to Rama, ‘How strange!  Vaishishtha Deva[1] is such a jnani (great man of knowledge). Even he wept inconsolably at the death of his son.’ Rama said, ‘Brother, he who has knowledge also has ignorance.  He who has knowledge of one kind has also knowledge of various kinds.  He who is aware of light also knows darkness.  Brahman is beyond knowledge and ignorance, beyond vice and virtue, beyond dharma (righteous action) and adharma (unrighteous works), beyond purity and impurity.’

Saying so Sri Ramakrishna repeats a song of Rama Prasad —

Come, O my mind, let us go out for a walk.

Let us gather the four fruits at the foot of Kalpataru, viz., Kali.

You have, O my mind, two wives pravritti[2] and nivritti[3]. Take nivritti on the way to the tree[4].

 

Beyond speech and mind ­  the real nature of  Brahman can not be described

Shyam Basu — What will remain when both the thorns are thrown away?

Sri Ramakrishna — Nitya-shuddha-bodha-rupam4. Now how can I explain it to you?  If somebody asks you how ghee (clarified butter) tastes, how will you explain it?  At the most you may say, ‘What is ghee like, it is what it is.’  A girl asked her friend,  ‘Your husband has come.  Well, tell me what joy do you feel on his coming?’  The friend said, ‘Sister, you will know it only when you have a husband.  How can I tell it to you?’ The Purana says that when Bhagavati (Mother Goddess) took birth in the house of Himalaya, She showed Herself to him in various forms. When Giriraj (the Lord of mountains, Himalaya) had seen Her in all forms, he said to Her, ‘Mother, may I now have the vision of the Brahman talked of in the Veda?’  Bhagavati replied, ‘Father, if you want to see Brahman, have the company of sadhus.’

“What Brahman is cannot be explained by the word of mouth. Somebody said, ‘Everything has been defiled by the touch of the tongue but Brahman alone has not been defiled.’ It means that the Vedas, the Puranas, the Tantras and other scriptures, one may say, have been defiled because they are recited by the tongue. But what Brahman is, nobody has yet been able to express by the word of mouth.  So, Brahman has not yet been defiled. ‘And what is the play with Sachchidananda, intercourse with Him’ ­ can also not be described by the word of mouth. Only he knows who has experienced it.”

Chapter Three

The pride of a pundit ­ vice and virtue

Thakur Sri Ramakrishna addressing the Doctor again says, “Look here, one cannot attain jnana till one is rid of pride.  When shall I be free? When ‘I’ cease to be. ‘My’ and ‘mine’ both are ajnana.  ‘You’ and ‘Yours’ constitute jnana.  He who is a bhakta says, “God, only You are the doer ­ You alone are doing all. I am only an instrument.  I do what You make me do. And all this splendour, this universe is Yours. This house, this family, is Yours ­ nothing is mine. I am Your servant. I only have the right to serve You the way You command.”

“Anybody who has read even a small portion of a book, or anything like it at once begins to take air. I had a talk with Ka-Thakur on spiritual matters. He said, ‘All this I know.’  I said, ‘Does he who visits Delhi brag about it and take air? Does he who is a babu say that he is a babu?’

Shyam Basu — He (Ka-Thakur) has great faith in you.

Sri Ramakrishna — What can I say, brother?  In the Kali Temple of Dakshineswar there is a woman sweeper ­ so puffed up!  She had some jewellery on her body.  Once while she was walking on the path, she saw a few persons on the same path.  The woman sweeper said to them, ‘I say, get away from my path.’  If she could be so arrogant, what can I say about others?

Shyam Basu — Mahashay! There is punishment for sin.  Then how can you say that God is doing everything?

Sri Ramakrishna — You indeed have the intellect of a goldsmith.

Narendra — The goldsmith’s intellect means a calculating intellect.

Sri Ramakrishna — I say, you eat mangoes! What is it to you how many hundred trees there are in the orchard, how many thousands are branches there, how many millions are leaves there ­ why calculate all this?  You have come to eat mangoes.  Eat them. (To Shyam Basu) You have got human birth in this world so that you may practise spiritual disciplines.  Try how you can gain bhakti at the lotus feet of God.  What need is there for other things? What will you gain by philosophizing?  See, you can get intoxicated with a quarter of wine.  What need have you to know how many maunds of wine there is in the wine shop?

The Doctor — Besides, God intoxication is infinite. This intoxication has no end.

Sri Ramakrishna (to Shyam Basu) — And then, give general power of attorney to God.  Leave the whole burden on Him.  If you give responsibility to a good fellow, will he deceive you?  Whether He will punish you for your sins or not, it is for Him to see.

The Doctor — Only He knows what is in His mind. What can a man tell by calculation?  He is beyond all calculation!

Sri Ramakrishna (to Shyam Basu) — You people have only this to say.  The residents of Calcutta say that God is partial because He has kept one in happiness and the other in sorrow.  Whatever these rascals have in their mind, the same they see in God.

 

Is earning name and fame the aim of life?

“Hema used to visit Dakshineswar.  Whenever he would meet me, he would say, ‘Well, Bhattacharya Mahashay, isn’t earning a name in the world the main thing?’ You see, very few people say that the aim of human life is God-realization.’’

Chapter Four

The gross, the subtle, the causal and the great cause

Shyam Basu — Can anyone show the subtle body?  Can anyone demonstrate that this very subtle body departs outside?

Sri Ramakrishna — Those who are bhaktas in the true sense, what need is there for them to demonstrate it.  What does he care whether some rascal believes it or not?  He doesn’t feel the desire of making friends with some big fellow.

Shyam Basu — Well, how the gross body, the subtle body and others differ from each other?

Sri Ramakrishna — The body that is made of five elements is gross body.  The mind, the intellect, the ego and consciousness ­ these constitute the subtle body.  That which brings the joy of God, makes you enjoy Him is the karana[5] (causal body). It is called ‘Bhagavati tanu[6]’ in the Tantra.  Last of all is the Mahakarana[7] (Turiya) which cannot be described by the word of mouth.

 

The need for practising spiritual discipline ­
devotion to God alone is the basic thing

“What use is it just hearing all this?  You have to do something.

“What use is it to shout, ‘Hemp, hemp?’  This cannot give you any intoxication.

“You cannot have intoxication even if you grind hemp and apply it on your body.  You have to eat some. Which is number 41 grade yarn and which is number 40 ­ this cannot be explained unless you enter this trade.  For those who are in this trade it is not at all difficult to pick out yarn of a particular grade.  So, I say, ‘Practise some sadhana.’ Then you will know all ­ what are the gross, the subtle, the karana and the Mahakarna.  Whenever you pray to God, you must only pray for devotion at His lotus feet.

“After Ahalya was freed from the curse, Ramachandra said to her, ‘Ask for a boon from me.’  Ahalya said, ‘Rama, if you wish to grant me a boon do grant that even if I am born as a pig it won’t matter; but, O Rama, may my mind always dwell at your lotus feet.’

“I asked Mother only for bhakti.  Offering flowers at the feet of the Mother and folding my hands, I said: Mother, here is Your ajnana, here is Your jnana just grant me pure devotion. Here is Your purity, here is Your impurity just grant me pure devotion. Here are Your virtuous acts, here are the vice just grant me pure devotion. Here is Your dharma (righteous work), here is Your adharma (unrighteous work) just grant me pure devotion.

Dharma, i.e. charitable work etc.  If you take dharma, you will also have to take adharma.  If you accept pious virtue, you will also have to accept vice.  If you believe in jnana, you will have to believe in ajnana too. If you take purity, you will also have to take impurity. He who is aware of light is also aware of darkness. If you have the knowledge of one, you also have the knowledge of many.  He who has the knowledge of right also has the knowledge of wrong.

He who has bhakti at the lotus feet of the Lord, even though he may be eating pork is blessed.  On the other hand if even taking havishya (boiled rice with clarified butter) one’s mind is attached to the world ...”

The Doctor — Then it is not right.  I tell you here one thing that Buddha took pork.  He took pork and also suffered from colic. Because of this disease Buddha used to take opium.  Do you know what is Nirvana and all that? Taking opium and remaining sedated. He would lose all external consciousness. This was his Nirvana.

Hearing such an elucidation of Buddha’s Nirvana everybody laughs.  The conversation goes on.

Chapter Five

Household and selfless work ­ Theosophy

Sri Ramakrishna (to Shyam Basu) — There is no harm in leading the life of a householder. But you must do your work selflessly fixing your mind at the lotus feet of the Lord.  Just see, if a person has a boil on his back he talks to everybody and perhaps attends to his work too. But his mind remains tied to the boil. It is the same way.

“You will live in the world like an unchaste wife.  Her mind remains drawn towards her lover though she performs her household duties. (To the Doctor) Did you understand?”

The Doctor — Without such bhava (attitude) how can I understand?

Shyam Basu — You do understand somewhat. Don’t you? (Everybody laughs.)

Sri Ramakrishna  (laughing) — He has been in this trade for quite some time.  Isn’t it? (All laugh.)

Shyam Basu — Mahashay, what do you think of Theosophy?

Sri Ramakrishna — The main thing is that those who make disciples are people of the lower class.  Also they who wish to acquire siddhi, i.e. occult powers, they too are of the lower class.  For example, the power to walk across the Ganga on foot; to be able to tell what a person is talking of in a distant region ­ it is also (an occult) power.  It is indeed very difficult to have pure bhakti for the Lord.

Shyam Basu — But they (Theosophists) are trying to re-establish Hinduism.

Sri Ramakrishna — I don’t know much about them.

Shyam Basu — Where does the jivatman (embodied soul) go after death ­ whether in the region of the moon, or that of some planet and so on is all explained in Theosophy.

Sri Ramakrishna — Let it be so. Do you know how I feel?  Somebody asked Hanuman, ‘What day and date is today?’ Hanuman said, ‘I don’t know the day, nor the date, nor the position of the planets ­ nothing. I only meditate on Rama.’  My bhava (attitude) is exactly like this.

Shyam Basu — They say that all are mahatmas (spiritually great).  Do you agree?

Sri Ramakrishna — If you have faith in my words, I say, ‘Yes.’  Now leave these matters alone. Come here when I am a little better.  If you trust me, you will find some way to peace.  Don’t you see that I do not accept money, nor do I accept clothes.  No offering has to be made here.  That is why so many persons visit me. (All laugh.) (To the Doctor) I have been talking to you all this.  Please don’t take it ill.  You have done all these things ­ earning of money and name, and lecturing.  Now fix your mind for sometime on the Lord. And come here now and then.  Talks on God inspire one.”

After sometime the Doctor rises to depart.  Just then enters Girish Ghosh and having taken the dust of the feet of Sri Ramakrishna takes his seat.  The Doctor is happy to see him and takes his seat again.

The Doctor — When I was here, he (Girish Babu) didn’t come.  As I rose to leave, he has arrived. (All laugh.)

The Doctor and Girish begin to talk of the Science Association.

Sri Ramakrishna — Will you take me there sometime?

The Doctor — If you go there, you will fall unconscious ­ seeing all the wonderful acts of the Lord!

Sri Ramakrishna — Are you sure?

Chapter Six

Adoration of the Guru

The Doctor (to Girish) — Do anything you like.  But do not worship him as God.  You trouble this nice man no end.

Girish — How can I help it, sir? What can I call him who has made me cross the ocean of the world and the ocean of doubts, tell me? Does his excreta look like excreta?

The Doctor — It is not so with excreta.  It does not repel me either.  A shopkeeper’s son came to me and defecated there.  Everybody covered his nose with cloth.  I sat beside him for half an hour and didn’t bring my handkerchief to my nose, not till the sweeper came and cleaned the place. 
I know that I am the same as he is.  Why feel repulsion from him? Can’t I take the dust of his (Sri Ramakrishna’s) feet?  See, I take it. (He takes the dust of Sri Ramakrishna’s feet.)

Girish — The angels are ringing bells at this moment.

The Doctor — What is strange about taking dust of his feet?  I can take dust of anybody’s feet.  See! See, I am taking! (He takes the dust of the feet of all.)

Narendra (to the Doctor) — We consider him as Godlike.  Do you know how? Like there is a point somewhere between the vegetable creation and the animal creation where it is most difficult to distinguish whether it is animate or inanimate.  It is the same with man-world and God-world.  Between these two there is a particular spot where it is difficult to say whether a man is human or God.

The Doctor — I say brother, illustrations do not apply to God.

Narendra — I am not saying that he is God.  I am only saying that he is a Godlike man.

The Doctor — One should keep such ideas within oneself. It is not right to bring them to light.  Nobody understands my feelings.  Even my best friends think of me as hard and cruel.  Perhaps, you people too will turn me out with insults.

Sri Ramakrishna (to the Doctor) — What do you say? These people have great affection for you.  They await your arrival so eagerly.

Girish — Everyone has the greatest respect for you.

The Doctor — Even my son and my wife believe that I am hard hearted because my fault is that I don’t give expression to my feelings before others.

Girish — In that case sir, it is better that you open the doors of your heart out of pity for your friends.

The Doctor — How can I tell you?  Like you my feelings too get worked up (I go in bhava). (To Narendra) I shed tears in solitude.

 

Great men and atonement of mankind ­
avatara and the like and Narendra

The Doctor (to Sri Ramakrishna) — Well, in bhava you place your foot on others’ person.  This is not right.

Sri Ramakrishna — But, do I know that I am placing my foot on someone’s person?

The Doctor — But you know that this is not right.

Sri Ramakrishna — How to tell you what happens to me in the state of bhava? After that state is over, it comes to my mind that perhaps I have this disease because of it.  I become mad in God’s bhava.  All this happens in (the state of) madness.  How can I help it?

The Doctor — He agrees.  He expresses regret for what he does.  He knows that such act is sinful.

Sri Ramakrishna (to Narendra) — You have so much penetration. Why don’t you speak and make him understand?

Girish (to the Doctor) — Mahashay, you have misunderstood.  He is not sorry for this.  His body is pure, sinless.  He touches people for their good.  There is a great possibility of his catching the disease by taking up their sins. That is why at times he thinks this way.  When you had an attack of colic, didn’t you feel regret for having kept awake at night and studying? Is it, therefore, wrong to keep awake and study at night?  You can have regret for the disease.  So, please don’t think that touching someone’s person for his welfare is not right.

The Doctor (put out of countenance, to Girish) — I stand defeated.  Give me, give the dust of your feet. (He takes the dust of Girish’s feet.) (To Narendra) At least I have to concede to his intellectual power.

Narendra (to the Doctor) — And think of this too.  You can devote your life for a scientific discovery without caring for the physical hardship and so forth.  But can he not risk his health for God, the greatest of all sciences?

The Doctor — All religious reformers ­ Jesus, Chaitanya, Buddha and Mohammed ­ were filled with arrogance at the end and had said, ‘Only whatever I have said is right.’  How is this?

Girish (to the Doctor) — Mahashay, even you are now guilty of the same fault.  You have the arrogance of all of them combined.  When you point out this wrong, you yourself are guilty of that.

The Doctor is silent.

Narendra (to the Doctor) — We offer him worship bordering on divine worship.

Thakur Sri Ramakrishna is laughing like a child in joy.


[1] Rama’s preceptor and a holy sage

[2] Worldliness

[3] Non-worldliness

[4] For the complete song, see Section 2, Chapter 6 of this volume.

[5] The body of ecstasy; the body made of joy

[6] The body derived from the Mother of Universe

[7] The Great Cause as the Unconditioned