Section XV

Sri Ramakrishna’s Conversation and Merry Making in the House of Shyampukur with Ishan, Doctor Sarkar, Girish and other Bhaktas

Chapter One

On householder ashrama

The fourteenth day of the bright fortnight in the month of Aswin. Celebrations of the worship of Mahamaya for three days – the seventh, eighth and ninth days – are over. The tenth day is the Vijaya. Loving exchanges on this occasion are already over. Bhagavan Sri Ramakrishna is living in the Shyampukur locality in the city of Calcutta along with the bhaktas. He is suffering from a serious disease – he has cancer of the throat. Kaviraj (the Ayurvedic physician) Ganga Prasad used to treat him when he was in Balaram’s house. Thakur asked him whether his disease was curable or not. Kaviraj did not reply to this question. He just remained silent. The allopathic doctors also hinted that the disease was incurable. Now Doctor Sarkar is treating him.

It is Thursday, 22 October, 1885 today. A bed has been made in the first floor room of the two storeyed house in Shyampukur. Sri Ramakrishna is sitting on it. In front and all around are sitting Doctor Sarkar, Ishan Chandra Mukhopadhyay and other devotees. Ishan is a very charitable person. Though he is on pension, he gives away in charity and always contemplates on God. Hearing of  Sri Ramakrishna’s illness he has come to see him. Though Doctor Sarkar comes for treatment, he stays here for six or seven hours. He has great love and reverence for Sri Ramakrishna and he takes the devotees as his very dear ones.

It is about 7 p.m. There is moonlight outside. It seems as if the full moon, the lord of the night, is raining nectar all around. Inside there is light of the lamp. There are many people inside. They have come to have darshan of this great man. All are gazing at him. They are keen to listen what he says and see what he does. Looking at Ishan Sri Ramakrishna says –

 

 Unattached worldly man –
the way to be unattached

“Blessed is the worldly man who attends to his worldly work keeping bhakti for God’s lotus feet. He is brave indeed! For example, there is a man carrying a load of two maunds on his head, and there is a procession of a bridegroom. The man has a load on his head, yet he sees the bridegroom. Unless one has great strength, this is not possible. As a mud fish lives in the mud, yet not a speck of mud soils its body. The waterfowl is ever diving into the water, but when it once flutters its wings no water stays on its body.

“But to be able to live unattached in the world, some sadhana (spiritual practice) is necessary.  You have to live in solitude for some days.  Let it be for one year, or six months, or three months or for a month. You have to meditate on God in this solitude. You should always pray to Him earnestly to grant you bhakti. And you should say to yourself, ‘There is none in this world who is my own. Those whom I call my own are just for two days.  Only God is my own person.  He alone is my all.  Alas! how to attain Him?’

“You can live in the world after gaining bhakti.  It is like smearing your hands with oil before cutting the jackfruit.  Then its milky exudation will not soil your hands.  The world is like water and the man’s mind is like milk.  If you keep milk in water, the milk and water will become one.  That is why one has to curdle the milk in a solitary corner.  When the milk is curdled, one has to take butter out of it.  This butter when placed in water does not get dissolved in it; it floats on the surface unattached.

“The members of the Brahmo Samaj said to me, ‘Sir, our attitude is like that of Raja Janak.  We will attend to the worldly affairs in an unattached manner as he did.’  I said, ‘It is very difficult to attend to the worldly affairs in an unattached manner.  One does not become Raja Janak just by saying so.  Raja Janak practised penance for so long standing with his head down and feet up.’  You people will not have to stand on your heads.

“But you have to carry out sadhana.  You have to live in solitude. Having attained jnana and bhakti in solitude, you may then go and live in the world.  Curds have to be made in a solitary corner.  If you disturb the milk it can’t be curdled.

“Janak was unattached. That is why he is known by another name as Videha (bodiless) because he had no consciousness of the body.  Though he lived in the world, he would roam about like a jivanmukta (liberated in this very life).  But to remain unaware of the body is a distant thing.  It needs a lot of spiritual practice.

“Janak was a great hero.  He wielded two swords – one of jnana and the other of karma (work).”

Jnana in household ashrama and  sannyasa ashrama

“If you ask whether there is a difference between the jnani of the household ashrama and that of the sannyasa ashrama, the answer is that both are the same.  The former is a jnani and so is the latter – just the same.  But there is some risk for the householder jnani.  Living amidst ‘woman and gold’ there is some risk in it. Living in a room of soot, howsoever clever one may be, one cannot escape a black stain on the body.

“Having taken out butter, if you keep it in a new earthen pot, there is no risk of its getting spoiled. But if you keep it in the pot of buttermilk, it is risky. (All laugh.)

“When parched rice is roasted, a few grains jump out of the frying pan producing the sound ‘pat-pat’. They are like the jasmine flower having no stain on it. The parched rice in the pot are also good but they are not like this flower, there remains a little stain on them. When a renouncer of household, or a sannyasi gains spiritual knowledge, he becomes stainless just like the jasmine flower. And after gaining spiritual knowledge, if he lives in the pail of the world, there can be some red stain on his body. (Everybody laughs.)

“A bhairavi (female ascetic) came to the court of Raja Janak. On seeing a woman, Raja Janak lowered his face with his eyes downwards. Seeing this the Bhairavi said, ‘O Janak, you are still afraid of a woman!’ When one has attained purna jnana (complete spiritual knowledge), one’s nature becomes that of a five year old child. Then one does not distinguish between a male and a female.

“Whatever it may be, there can be a stain on the body of a householder jnani but this stain does not do any harm. Though the moon has stains but they do not obstruct moonlight.”

 

Karma on attaining jnana – for the welfare of humanity

“Some people take to karma after attaining jnana for teaching mankind, for example Janak, Narada and others. For imparting instruction to mankind one must have (spiritual) power. The rishis were engaged in attaining jnana for themselves. But religious teachers like Narada roamed about for the good of mankind. They were heroes.

“When habate wood (an old, dry piece of wood) floats, it sinks even if a bird sits on it. But when bahaduri wood (superior and heavy log) floats it can take across a cow, a man, and even an elephant. The steamboat itself goes across and also takes so many people across.

“Narada and such other teachers are like the bahaduri wood (heavy log), like the steam boat.

“Some people eat, wipe their mouth with a hand towel and sit down quietly lest others should know that they have eaten. (All laugh.) And then there are others who having got a mango cut it into pieces and also share it with others.

‘‘Narada and such other religious teachers retained bhakti for the welfare of others even after attaining jnana.’’

Chapter Two

The law for the age – Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga

The Doctor — When one has attained jnana (knowledge) one becomes speechless, eyes get closed and tears flow from it. Then there is the need for bhakti.

Sri Ramakrishna — Bhakti is a woman. So she has access to zenana (inner apartments). Jnana can go only up to the visitor’s room. (Everybody laughs.)

The Doctor — But everybody cannot be permitted to go inside the zenana. The public women cannot go. So jnana is needed.

Sri Ramakrishna — A man does not know the right path. But he has love of God within and wants to know Him – such a person attains God by sheer dint of his bhakti. A great devotee set out to have the darshan of Lord Jagannath. He did not know any way to Puri. Instead of going south he went towards the west. Though he had lost his way, he earnestly enquired about it from others. They told him, ‘Not this way, go that way.’ This devotee at last arrived Puri and had darshan of Lord Jagannath. Just see, even if you don’t know somebody else tells you.

The Doctor — But he did go astray.

Sri Ramakrishna — Yes, he did go astray but at last reached the goal.

Somebody asks, “Is God with form or without form?”

Sri Ramakrishna — He is with form and also without form. A sannyasi went for the darshan of Jagannath. After the darshan a doubt rose in his mind whether God is with form or without form. He had a stick in his hand. He began to examine with it whether it touches Jagannath’s body or not. First he moved his stick from this side to that and felt that it did not touch Jagannath’s body. He saw that there was no idol of the deity! And when he moved the stick back from that side to this, it touched the deity’s body. The sannyasi then understood that God is with form as well as without form.

“But it is very difficult to realize this. How can He who is without form be with form? This doubt arises in the mind. And if He is with form, why then He has so many forms?” 

The Doctor — He who has made forms is Himself with form. And when He willed, He became without form. He can indeed be everything.

Sri Ramakrishna — Unless one realizes God one cannot comprehend all this. For the aspirant He manifests Himself in many forms, in many ways. Somebody had a tub for dyeing. Many people used to visit him to get their clothes dyed. That person would ask, ‘Which colour do you want it to be dyed in?’ Someone perhaps said, ‘I want to get it dyed red.’ That person immediately puts that cloth in his tub and having dyed it says, ‘Here is your cloth dyed red.’ And another perhaps says, ‘I want to get it dyed yellow.’ Having dipped the cloth immediately in the same tub, that person says, ‘Here is your yellow cloth. Take it.’ When asked to dye it blue, he again dips the cloth in the same tub and says just the same, ‘Here is your cloth dyed blue.’ In this way he dyed everybody’s cloth dipping in the same tub in the colour he was asked. A person was seeing this strange affair. The owner of the tub asked, ‘How have you come brother? What colour do you want?’ He said, ‘Brother, please give me the colour in which you are dying.’ (Everybody laughs.)

“Somebody went to defecate (in a field). There he saw a beautiful bird on a tree. Later he said to another person, ‘Brother, I saw a special red colour bird on a certain tree.’ That person said, ‘I have also seen it. But it is not red. It is green.’ Yet another person said, ‘No, no. It is not green, it is yellow.’ Others also spoke in the same way. One said, it was violet, another blue, another black and so on. This led to a quarrel. Then they all went under the tree. They saw a person sitting there. When asked he said, ‘I live under this tree. And I know this particular bird very well. You are all telling the truth – it is sometimes red, sometimes green, sometimes yellow, sometimes blue and what not! And at times I see that it has no colour at all.’

“He who always meditates on God can only know what is His real Self. Only he knows that God grants His darshan in various forms. He is seen in different states. He has attributes and then He is without attributes. Only he who lives under the tree knows that this quick change bird has different colours, and at times he has no colour at all. The others only discuss, quarrel and trouble themselves.

“He is with form and He is formless. What He is like, do you know? Suppose there is an ocean of Sachchidananda (Existence-Knowledge-Bliss) –boundless one. With the cool of bhakti the water of this ocean freezes at places just as water freezes in the shape of ice.  In other words, He takes a concrete form for the devotee. Sometimes He is seen in a body. And when the sun of jnana rises, this ice melts.”

The Doctor — When the sun rises, ice melts into water. And then you know, it again becomes formless as vapours.

Sri Ramakrishna — That is to say, when one realizes that only Brahman is the Reality and the world an illusion, one attains samadhi and all His forms vanish. Whether God is a person, one is not aware of. What He is cannot be said by the word of mouth. And who will tell? Those who are to tell are themselves not there. Their ‘I’ cannot be found even if you search for it. Then Brahman becomes attributeless and one can have His bodhebodha (intellectual conception and realization). He cannot be known through the mind and the intellect.

“That is why they say that bhakti is the moon while jnana is the sun. I hear that very much towards the north as well as towards the south are oceans. It is so cold there that water freezes and becomes icebergs at certain places. A ship cannot sail there. It cannot go farther.”

The Doctor — One stops on the path of bhakti.

Sri Ramakrishna — Yes, one does stop. But it does not do any harm. It is that very water of the ocean of Sachchidananda that freezes into ice. If you further reason out and say that ‘Brahman is real while the world an illusion,’ even in this there is no harm. The ice will melt by the heat of the sun of jnana. Then what remains is the same ocean of Sachchidananda.

 

The ripe ‘I’ and the unripe ‘I’ –
the ‘I’ of a bhakta and the ‘I’ of a child

“When you have reasoned it out and attained samadhi, your ‘I’ or such like thing vanishes. But to attain samadhi is very difficult. This ‘I’ never wants to disappear, and since it does not wish to leave you, you again have to return to this world.

“The bullock bleats, ‘Hamba, hamba’ (I, I). That is why there is so much of misery for it. The whole day it is pulling the plough, come rain or summer season. Moreover, the butcher cuts it. Even now it is not left out. The tanner tans leather, and shoes are made. And last of all they make string of its intestines. When it falls in the hands of the carder and utters, ‘Tunhun, tunhun’ (you, you), it is only then that it is released.

“When the jiva says, ‘Naham, naham, naham (not I, not I, not I), I am nothing, O Lord. I am the servant, You are the Master,’ it is only then that he is released, he is liberated.”

The Doctor — But one must fall into the hands of the carder. (All laugh.)

Sri Ramakrishna — If ‘I’ simply refuses to go, let the rascal remain as the ‘servant I’. (All laugh.)

“Some persons retain their ‘I’ even after samadhi as ‘the servant I,’ ‘the devotee I.’ Sankracharya retained the ‘I’ of knowledge to instruct the mankind. ‘The servant I,’ ‘the devotee I,’ the ‘I’ of knowledge, are all ‘ripe I’. What is ‘unripe I,’ do you know? I am the doer, I am the son of such a big man, I am so learned, I am wealthy, how dare you talk to me in this manner – such kind of all attitudes. If somebody steals in his house and he is caught, first of all he snatches all the articles from him. Then he gives him a good beating and then hands him over to the police saying, ‘Don’t you know whom you are robbing?’

“After you have realized God, your nature becomes that of a five year old child. The ‘I’ of a child and the ripe ‘I’. The child is not subject to any guna – is beyond the three gunas. He is not subject to any of the gunas: Sattva, rajas or tamas. See, the child is not governed by tamoguna. He may just now quarrel and fight with somebody, but immediately he puts his arm around his neck, shows him love and plays with him. He is also not under the influence of rajas. He makes a toy house with so much of labour. But soon after he leaves it there and runs to his mother. He may roam about wearing a pretty dhoti and it falls off in the dust the next moment. He may forget the dhoti completely or he may be roaming about with the dhoti under his armpit! (Laughter.)

“If you ask this boy, ‘You have a pretty dhoti, to whom does it belong?’ He replies, ‘It is mine. My father has given it to me.’ If you say to him, ‘Dear little one, give me your dhoti,’ he replies, ‘It is mine, my father has given it to me. No, I shall not give it to you.’ Later on if you can make him forget by giving him a doll or a flute, he may give you his five-rupee worth dhoti and depart. And a five year old child is also not attached to the sattvaguna. Now he is so fond of his companions of the neighbourhood that he cannot bare their separation even for a moment. But when he goes to some other place with his parents, he makes new friends and showers all his love on them. He forgets his old companions altogether. And then he has no pride of his caste. His mother has told him that so and so is your elder brother, he would take him to be his real brother a hundred per cent. Then maybe that one is the son of a brahmin, or that of a potter, he would eat with him in the same plate. And then he has no idea of purity or impurity. He may start eating without having washed his bottom after defecation! He also has no feeling of shame. After defecating he may ask anybody whether he has had a full evacuation.

“And then there is the ‘I’ of an old man.  (The Doctor laughs.) The old people have a number of bondages – of caste, of pride, of shame, of contempt, of fear, of worldly intellect, of calculation and of cunningness. If he has any grudge and ill will towards someone, he cannot shake it off easily. Perhaps he can’t do it till he is alive. Then there is the pride of learning and the pride of wealth. The old man’s ‘I’ is the unripe ‘I’.”

 

Who does not gain jnana?

(To the Doctor) “Four or five persons don’t gain jnana (spiritual wisdom). He who has the ‘I’ of learning, the ‘I’ of knowledge, or the ‘I’ of wealth does not attain jnana. If you tell these people that there is a nice sadhu at such and such place and ask them whether they would like to go to see him, they immediately offer a number of excuses and do not go. They say to themselves in their mind, ‘I am such a big man. Why should I go?’

 

  The three gunas – sattva quality leads one to God –
the way to discipline the senses

“The nature of tamoguna is pride. Pride is generated by ignorance, by tamoguna.

“The Puranas say that Ravana had rajoguna, Kumbhakaran tamoguna and Vibhishana sattvaguna. This is the reason why Vibhishana could attain Ramachandra. Anger is another characteristic of tamoguna. In anger one loses the sense of right and wrong. Hanuman had set fire to Lanka. He lost the consciousness that fire could destroy Sita’s cottage too!

“Then there is another characteristic of tamoguna, i.e. lust. Girendra Ghosh of Pathuraghat said, ‘One cannot get rid of enemies like lust, anger etc. So turn their direction.’ Desire for God. Have intercourse with Sachchidananda. And if you cannot get over anger, bring the tamas of bhakti. What! I have repeated the name of Durga, shall I not to be liberated? There is no sin for me, no bondage. Thereafter, have greed for God realization. Fall in love with God’s form and say, ‘I am the servant of God. I am His son. If you have to be proud, be proud of this. In this way you can turn the direction of all the six enemies.”

The Doctor — It is very difficult to control the senses. Put blinkers on both the eyes of the horse. In case of some horses, you may have to close both the eyes completely.

Sri Ramakrishna — There is no fear if He once bestows His grace, if the Lord grants you His darshan, if you once have vision of the Atman. Then the six enemies can do no harm.

“The ever perfect saints like Narada and Prahlada don’t have to do so much to put blinkers on their eyes. The boy who himself holds his father’s hand while walking on the ridge of the field may release the father’s hand and fall into a ditch when he is a little uncareful. But the boy whose hand the father holds can never fall into the ditch.”

The Doctor — But it is not right for the father to hold the boy’s hand.

Sri Ramakrishna — It is not so. Spiritually advanced persons have the nature of a child. Before God they are always like a child and their ego vanishes. They derive all their strength from God. It is the strength of the Father, nothing is their own. This is their firm conviction.     

 

The path of reason and the path of joy –
Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga

The Doctor — Will the horse move unless blinkers are put on its eyes? Unless the enemy is subjugated can one realize God?

Sri Ramakrishna — That what you are saying, they call it the path of reason – they call it Jnana Yoga. One can attain God by this way too. The jnanis say that you must purify your conscience first. First sadhana is needed, then you will attain jnana.

“You can attain Him by the path of bhakti too. If you once develop bhakti at the lotus feet of the Lord, if you begin to enjoy chanting His name and glories, you don’t have to try to control your senses any more. The enemy gets subjugated automatically.

“Can he who loses his son quarrel with anybody on that day? Or can he join a feast and eat there? Can he walk about with his head high or enjoy sensory pleasures?

“If the insect of rainy season sees light but once, can it live in the darkness then?”

The Doctor (smiling) — So I have to burn myself to death! Well, I accept it!

Sri Ramakrishna — No, but the devotee does not burn himself to death like the moth. It is the light of the jewel towards which the devotee rushes. The light of the jewel may be very bright but it is cool and comforting. This light does not burn the body, this light generates peace and joy.

 

Jnana Yoga is very difficult

“You can attain Him by the path of reasoning, by the path of Jnana Yoga. But this path is very difficult. ‘I am not the body, nor the mind, nor the intellect, neither disease, nor sorrow, nor restlessness. I am the Self of Sachchidananda, beyond pleasure and pain, not subject to the senses’– it is very easy to say all this by the word of mouth. But it is very difficult to practise it, to internalize it. The hand is scratched and pierced by thorns. It is bleeding profusely, yet you say, ‘Where? My hand is not scratched and pierced by the thorns. I am all right.’ It is not proper to say so. First you have to burn the thorns in the fire of jnana.”

 

Knowledge and learning by reading books – Thakur’s system of education

“Most people think that without reading books perhaps one cannot learn, one cannot attain knowledge. But it is better to listen than to read, and it is better to see than to listen. There is a great difference between hearing of Kashi and visiting Kashi.

“And then he who plays chess does not understand his move so much. But those who do not play and suggest the move from outside, their move is much better than that of the player. Worldly people think that they are very intelligent. But they are attached to the world – they are themselves playing the game. So they cannot understand their move well. But the sadhus who have renounced the world are unattached to worldly things. They are more intelligent than the worldly people. They are not playing themselves, so they can tell the move better from outside.”

The Doctor (to the devotees) — He (the Paramahansa) could not have gained so much jnana by reading books. Faraday communed with nature. So he was able to discover such great scientific truth. He could not have attained all this by knowledge derived from reading books. Mathematical formulae only throw the brain into confusion. They are a great obstacle in the way of original inquiry.

 

Divine wisdom and book learning

Sri Ramakrishna (to the Doctor) — When I used to lie on the ground in the Panchavati calling upon the Mother, I said to Her, ‘Mother, please show me that the karmis (doers) have achieved through karma, the yogis have achieved through yoga and what the jnanis have known through reasoning.’ And I used to say much more. How to tell you all that?

‘‘Aha, what states I have passed through! I had lost my sleep.”

Saying so, the Paramahansa says in a song –

I have lost my sleep, now how to sleep anymore?

I am awake in the yajna of yoga.

In this sleep of yoga granted by You

Even sleep has been put to sleep.

“I have read no books. But you see, I repeat the Mother’s name, so they all show me consideration. Shambhu Mullick said to me: You have no shield, no sword, you are just a soldier of peace.” (All laugh.)

Now the talk turns on Girish Chandra Ghosh’s play – ‘Buddha Charita’. He had invited the Doctor to see the play. The Doctor enjoyed it very much.

The Doctor (to Girish) — You are a very bad man! Shall I have to visit the theatre daily?

Sri Ramakrishna(to M.) — What is he saying? I have not understood.

M. — He has liked the play very much.

Chapter Three

Conversation on avatara – the avatara and the jiva

Sri Ramakrishna (to Ishan) — You have said nothing. This man (the Doctor) does not believe in the avatara.

Ishan — Sir, I can’t discuss any more. I don’t like discussion.

Sri Ramakrishna — But why? Why not speak out what is right?

Ishan (to the Doctor) — Because of our ego we people have little faith. Kak Bhushundi (a crow) did not accept Ramachandra as the avatara in the beginning. At last when it wandered through the region of the moon, the region of gods and the region of Kailash, it saw that there was no way to free itself from Rama and it surrendered itself unto Rama taking shelter in him. Rama then took it in his hand and swallowed it. Bhushundi then saw that it was still perched on its tree. His pride having fallen, Kak Bhushundi then understood that though outwardly Ramachandra was a human being like others, yet he had the whole universe in his belly. The sky, the moon, the stars, the sun, the planets, the ocean, the hills, the men, the beasts, the trees and so on – all these are inside his belly.

Limited powers of the conditioned

Sri Ramakrishna (to the Doctor) — It is very difficult to understand even this much that He is both limitless and limited. The Nitya (Absolute) belongs to the same Being to which the leela (phenomenal world) belongs. How can we force ourselves with our little intelligence to say that He cannot become a man? Can our little intelligence realize all these things? Can a one seer pail contain four seers of milk?

“So, you have to put your faith in the words of those sadhus and mahatmas (spiritually advanced persons) who have realized God. The sadhu is ever engaged in thinking of God just as an advocate remains involved with his law suit. Can you put your faith in the tale of Kak Bhushundi?”

The Doctor — I have faith in what is right. And once I have faith, I don’t doubt. How can I call Rama an avatara? First take the murder of Bali. He felled him dead with his arrow hiding himself like a thief. This is a man’s work, not of God.

Girish Ghosh — Mahashay, only God could do it.

The Doctor — And then consider his forsaking of Sita.

Girish — Mahashay, this too could be done by God, not by man.                       

 

 Science, or the words of saints

Ishan (to the Doctor) — Why don’t you accept the avatara? You yourself have just said that He who has made forms is with form, He who has made the mind is without form. You have just said that anything is possible with God.

Sri Ramakrishna (laughing) — That God can become avatara is not said in their science (books of western science). So, how can one believe? (All laugh.)

“Listen to this story. Somebody came and said, ‘I say brother, I have just been to such and such locality where I saw a house falling down with a terrible crash.’ The listener was an English educated person. He said, ‘Wait a little. Let me see if it is in the newspaper.’ However, he did not find the news of the house falling in the paper. Then he said, ‘I say brother, I cannot trust your word. You see, this news is not in the paper. It is a lie.’ ” (All laugh.)

Girish(to the Doctor) — You will have to accept Sri Krishna as God. I shall not allow you to take Him as a man. You will have to call him either demon or God.

Simplicity of heart and faith in God

Sri Ramakrishna — Unless you are simple at heart you cannot promptly have faith in God. God is very far from worldly intellect. Because of worldly intellect a number of doubts crop up and different kinds of arrogance make appearance – the arrogance of learning, the arrogance of wealth and so on. But he (the Doctor) is simple at heart.

Girish (to the Doctor) — Mahashay, what is your opinion? Can a hunchman ever attain jnana (spiritual knowledge)?

The Doctor — O Lord! Can he ever attain (spiritual knowledge)?

Sri Ramakrishna — How simple was Keshab Sen! One day he came there (to the Kali Temple of Rasmani). Seeing the guesthouse he asked at four o’clock, ‘I say, when the guests and the poor are going to be fed?’

“The more you have faith, the more you will gain spiritual wisdom. The cow which is choosy in fodder does not give much milk. But the cow which gulps all you give it – vegetable leaves, vegetable skins, straw – yields streams of milk. (Everybody laughs.)

“Unless you have faith of a child, you cannot attain God. The mother says, ‘He is your elder brother.’ The child has such a faith that he takes him as his brother without the least doubt. The mother says, ‘There it is a hobgoblin.’ The child hundred percent believes that there is a hobgoblin in the room. God bestows His mercy on him who has the faith of a child. You cannot attain God with your worldly intellect.’’

The Doctor (to the devotees) — It is not right for the cow to eat up all sorts of things and yield milk. We used to give our cow anything as its feed. Later on, I fell very ill. I then thought what was the reason. After a lot of enquiry I found that it had been eating anything besides what we gave it. Then it created a lot of problem. I had to go to Lucknow and at last lost (spent) twelve thousand rupees! (Roars of laughter.)

“Well, it is not easy to see the relation between cause and effect. How misfortune befalls one, one cannot tell. A seven month girl fell ill in the family of Paikpara babus. She had whooping cough. I went there to treat her. I could not unearth the cause of her illness. At last I found that she had taken the milk of a she-ass which had gone wet in the rain.” (All laugh.)

Sri Ramakrishna — What do you say! My cab had passed under a tamarind tree. So I suffered from acidity. (The Doctor and all other laugh.)

The Doctor (laughing) — The captain of a ship had a bad headache. The doctors after consultation had a blister applied to the ship. (All laugh.)

 

Company of sadhus and renunciation of sensory enjoyments

Sri Ramakrishna (to the Doctor) — It is always necessary to keep the company of sadhus. One is always suffering from the disease. One should act on what the sadhus say. Only listening to them won’t do. One has to take the medicine as well as control one’s diet. The diet prescribed by the doctor is to be taken.

The Doctor — The prescribed food is the most important.

Sri Ramakrishna — There are three kinds of physicians – superior physicians, mediocre physicians and inferior physicians. The physician who comes, feels the pulse and goes away saying, ‘You must take the medicine,’ is an inferior physician. He doesn’t care to know whether the patient has taken the medicine or not. And the physician who makes the patient understand in so many ways to take the medicine, talks to him nicely, saying, ‘Brother, how can you get well unless you take the medicine? Dear brother, do take it. I will myself put it in your mouth,’ is a mediocre physician. And the physician who puts his knees on the chest of the patient and forces the medicine down his throat when he sees that the patient refuses to take it is the superior physician.

The Doctor — And there are medicines for which you don’t have to put your knees on the patient’s chest. For example, homeopathic medicines.

Sri Ramakrishna — There is no danger if the superior physician puts his knees on the patient’s chest.

“Like physicians, there are also three kinds of acharyas (religious teachers). They who don’t keep contact with their disciples after imparting instructions to them are the inferior ones. They who convince their disciples again and again for their good so that they can assimilate their instructions, they who implore and insist them lovingly are mediocre ones. And they who even use force finding that the disciple doesn’t listen to them by any means are known as superior acharyas.”

 

Woman and monk  – hard rules for the monk

(To the Doctor) “The monk has to eschew ‘woman and gold’. He will not even see the picture of a woman. Do you know what women are like? They are like pickles and tamarind. The moment you think of them, your mouth begins to water. Pickles and tamarind should not be brought before the sight.

“But this is not for you people – it is for the monk. As far as possible you people will live unattached amidst women. In between you will go to a solitary place and meditate on God. None else should be there! When you have gained faith and bhakti for Him, you will be able to live unattached to a fair extent. After having one or two children both husband and wife must live together as brother and sister. And they must pray to the Lord that the mind may not go in sensual enjoyment – there be no more children.”

Girish (laughing, to the Doctor) — You have been here for three or four hours, won’t you go to treat your patients?

The Doctor — The practice and the patients are no more for me now? My meeting this Paramahansa has deprived me of everything! (All laugh.)

Sri Ramakrishna — Look here, there is a river called karmanasha (that puts an end to all activities). A great problem arises when you take a plunge into this river. Your activity is over when you once dive into it – one cannot take to any work after it. (The Doctor and all others laugh.)

The Doctor (to M., Girish and other devotees) — Look here, I am your very own. But not if you want me for the treatment. If you accept me as your own, I am your kith and kin.

Sri Ramakrishna (to the Doctor)— There is one ahetuki bhakti (selfless devotion). It is very good if one attains it. Prahlada had this selfless devotion. Such a devotee says, ‘O Lord, I want neither wealth nor name nor bodily pleasures and so forth. Only grant that I may have pure bhakti at Thy lotus feet.’

The Doctor — Yes, I have seen people bowing in the Kali Temple. They have nothing but some desire within – grant that I may get some employment, or grant that I be cured and so on.

(To Sri Ramakrishna) “You should not converse with people in this disease of yours. But when I come, you will talk to me.’’ (Everybody laughs.)

Sri Ramakrishna — Please cure me of this disease. I cannot repeat His name and sing His glories.

The Doctor — Meditation alone is enough.

Sri Ramakrishna — What are you saying? How can I be narrow and one-sided? I eat fish cooked in several different forms – sometimes fish in curry, sometimes spiced, sometimes with tamarind and at times fried or baked. Sometimes I carry out worship, sometimes japa, sometimes meditation and at other times sing His name and glories. And sometimes I dance repeating His name.

The Doctor — I am also not narrow and one-sided.

 

What is the harm in not accepting the avatara?

Sri Ramakrishna — Your son Amrita does not believe in avatara. What is the harm in it? You can attain Him by believing in God without form and then you can also attain Him by believing in God with form. What is essential is that you should have faith in Him and that you should surrender yourself to Him. Man is ignorant, he can make mistakes. Can you put four seers of milk in one seer of jug? Therefore, whatever the path you choose you should call upon God with a longing heart. He is antaryamin (knower of heart within). He will surely listen to your inner call. You will reach Him alone whether you take the path of God with form or God without form with a longing heart.

“Whether you take the sugared roti (Indian bread) straight or oblique, it will taste equally sweet. Your son Amrita is a very good boy.”

The Doctor — He is your disciple.

Sri Ramakrishna (smiling, to the Doctor) — No fellow is my disciple. Rather I am everybody’s disciple! We are all children of God! We are all His servants – I am also the child of God. I am also His servant.

“Uncle moon is everybody’s uncle.”

Everybody present enjoys it and laughs.