1.

M. ­ How far is Vishwanath (temple) and Dashashvamedha Ghat from where you were staying? And, the Advaita Ashrama (of Kashi)?

Jagabandhu ­ The city is within a mile. I was living in 17, Ramapura. Prabhas, Vinay’s youngest brother is living there. Also, Vishwash Mahashay. The latter is spending his time in a holy place. He was a station master. He was at Hathras for a long time. Swamiji (Vivekananda) and many others used to live with him during their wandering stage.

M. ­ There is perhaps a strike today. How have you come from Howrah?

Jagabandhu ­ The trams are running but no other conveyance is available. I came by tram from Howrah to the turning of the Amherst Street. From there, I came on foot, with a bag in my hand and a bundle of baghambari (designed like the skin of lion) blanket under the armpit. I have come just now. While you were entering the room, I had climbed up to the fourth level. Jiten and Shachi were sitting on the roof.

M. ­ Did you have darshan of Sri Vishwanath and Annapurna every day? When living in a holy place of pilgrimage, one should daily offer pranams and have darshan of the presiding deity of the place, if your health allows. Otherwise, one commits an offence. Suppose, one’s father and mother are living together at the same place in a town but the boy is working elsewhere. Just as the son enquires after the parents daily, the same should be done here. Those who want God should conduct themselves in this manner. This is called bhakti. God is the father and mother of one’s parents.

Jagabandhu ­ Yes, Sir. Sometimes, when I used to go for the arati I used to have darshans twice I would sit down and take to japa. I used to get a lot of inspiration. I used to take charanamrita and make holy rounds. When I would enter, I would notice that my mind would quieten down by itself.

M. ­ Kashi is a place of pilgrimage. Thakur had the darshan of Vishwanath ­ Annapurna there ­ awakened, living entity. How many people have committed tyrannies but they are always there in the same form. The proof of it is that as soon as one enters, the mind becomes stable. Thakur asked me to meditate on Him. Everything has been prepared according to one’s needs. There is a god and a centre of pilgrimage everywhere. ‘This world is a burning fire,’ so said Thakur. That is why he has made sadhus, shrines and holy centres for the peace of the minds of the devotees.

"You must have been visiting the Advaita Ashrama, Sevashrama quiet often? Are Shantananda, Chandra Maharaj and other sadhus well? Which other Ashrams and Maths managed by others did you visit? Did you bathe at the Dashashvamedha Ghat in the Ganga?"

M. ­ Did you go to Vindhyachal? And did you have darshan of Vinduvasini? This is one of the fifty one Devi Peethas (holy places of the Goddess).

Jagabandhu ­ Yes, sir. I, Ramamaya and Mukunda Babu went together. And Chaku Maharaj went from the Sevashrama. ‘Bengal Mai’ also went there with Chapala. We were in the house of a panda. We felt very happy at Devi’s darshan but there was much more joy on the hill.

M. ­ Did you have any talk with the sadhus on the Vindhyachal mount?

Jagabandhu ­ Yes, Sir. We had a talk with the old Mahatma Purnananda. He lives naked near the Ashtabhuja temple in a hut. He attacked Thakur unprovoked. This made me stubborn. Contradicting him, I quietened him. Then he began to show affection.

"And there is a temple at a spot somewhat below on the hill. I saw sadhus there also."

M. ­ Thakur used to say that all sadhus are Narayana. There are also rajoguni and tamoguni Mahatmas. One should offer pranam to them all. They are worthy of our worship because of their renunciation. Whenever you have to say something to a sadhu, you should say it folding your hands.

M. ­ Where did you sit on the bank of the Ganga in Kashi?

Jagabandhu ­ At the Kedar Ghat. A nice landscape you have there! Hundreds of people sit there and meditate. I used to sit there for a long time. In front, I had a big expanse of the Ganga. In between, there were loud sounds of ‘Gange Hara’ by the boat passengers. It is a very inspiring spot.

M. ­ A beautiful spot indeed! Every spot on the bank of the Ganga is holy but the Kedar Ghat is even more holy. It was close to it that Thakur lived in the house of the Raja Babus. One can imagine that he would generally sit at this ghat, have the darshan of the Ganga and bathe in it. Thakur’s meditation, darshan, talk have taken a subtle form and is present there. When the right bhakta goes there, that bhava manifests itself in his heart and that fills the mind and heart of the bhakta with an unknown kind of joy.

"As such places, divine inspiration gets concentrated in this way since eternity by the visit of the rishis, munis, avataras and mahapurushas. Just as the wealth of a state is in the raja’s treasure, similarly the treasure of the devotees’ dhyana, bhakti and faith gets stocked in a holy place.

"Thakur used to say, ‘In Kashi, Shiva whispers the name of Ram in the ears of the dying and the Mother Annapurna breaks the bonds of birth and death of the jivas.’ He saw this with his own eyes and he entered into samadhi in the boat at Manikarnika Ghat. He said, ‘The Mother snaps the bonds of Maya quickly.’ And he said, ‘I saw the whole of Kashi as a city of gold.’ The shastras contains all this, but with the passage of time people lose their faith. So, Thakur came and revived and reinspired all these truths for the bhaktas by perceiving them. Thus, all these holy places are the indestructible storehouse of Eternity.

"The shastra says this: If one dies in Kashi he attains mukti (liberation). Thakur almost showed it to the bhaktas. Putting his foot on the chest of Hriday’s mother, he said, ‘Sister, you will die in Kashi,’ and this is what happened at last. The others did not accept it, even though they had heard it. But it turned out to be true, so they believed. She was his elder cousin. She had recognised Thakur as an avatara.

"How can man understand all this with his intellect defiled by sensory experience? It is all-wonderful. There is no other way but to put one’s faith in it, in the words of guru, in the words of the avatara. This is the only consistent position; faith and faith."

M. ­ It goes on this way ­ a group goes there and another returns charged with energy. He who has created this complication of the universe has never-ending energy.

"The reading of the life of Buddha is going on here for several days. The Buddha preaches to his disciples in Kushinagar ­ This body will not last, it is very troublesome to take it along. Just as a cart creeps along with such difficulties when one of its wheels breaks down, similarly, it is with this body ­ it is not able to move anymore now.

"Householders build houses, states and so on. But, none of these will last. Only God will. He is there since eternity and will be there till ever. Have a relationship with Him. Consider Him as your only eternal friend, your own. Then, you will not be overwhelmed by affection or grief while you live here or while you depart. You will live in joy, you will depart in joy."

M. (to all present) ­ See what happened! Gopa came and saluted Buddha. But, Buddha could not recognise her. At the end, Gopa also embraced sannyasa. He established an independent Math for women. His seven year old son Rahul also became a sannyasi. His step-brother Ananda, the heir apparent also did not go back at all to home on seeing all that. The whole family embraced sannyasa.

"He, whose touch has made all these personalities, what a personality he must be! Think what he is, brother? Think a little. A tree is known by its fruit."

M. (to the Elder Jiten) ­ Thakur said one day, ‘She (the Holy Mother) was going to her native village. She came to offer me her pranam. I wondered who she was ­ as though she was not even my acquaintance.’

"Just see what is the state of a man who was an avatara!

"Why did he speak like this? To train humanity."

M. (to the Pleader) ­ What use are all these, money, house, family and so on? Nothing will go with us. Why then, such love for them? What will go with us are our bhakti, our faith only. Even so, one must earn. It is for this purpose that God has created the vanaprastha and sannyasa ashramas. One should sit down, mind quietened and develop this non-worldly jnana, bhakti and faith.

"I used to hear that earlier people used to take to vanaprastha at the age of fifty. Now, one rarely hears it.

"But nothing will accompany us. All that will accompany us are God’s name and love for Him."

M. (to all present) ­ A great man, a noble soul. His work over, he has departed. When people begin to revere such people, one may know that the country is rising. He was a hero of selfless work.

M. (to Vinay) ­ You should name these while giving. This will inspire them with all those places.

"One should have the darshan of the prasad, touch, offer pranam to it, eat it and also hear its name. By repeatedly doing so one gains bhakti. Religion has its subtle ways. Thakur said to Naren, ‘One gains bhakti by eating prasad.’ When Thakur gave the atka prasad (of rice) of Jagannath to Narendra, he refused it at first. He said, ‘What use it will be to take it ­ this dried rice?’ Thakur then said this to him that one gains bhakti by taking prasad. Then, Narendra took it without further thought. So it happened."

M. (to all present) ­ Devotion does not fall from the sky. It has to be earned. By doing so repeatedly ­ aneka janmasamsiddhastato yati paraam gatim […and perfected through many births reaches then the Supreme Goal (Gita 6:45)]. (To Shuka Lal and the Doctor) Please take home some prasad.

2.

Durgapada ­ C. R. Das has defeated the British government in the Bengal legislature and has come out victorious. The victory of the Swaraj Party is being talked by everybody today. Mahatma Gandhi was initially not in favour of forming the Swaraj Party. Later on, he approved. The British government in India is worried on this account.

M. (happily) ­ Aha! Gandhi Mahashay is as though the picture of renunciation. Wherever there is weakness, he goes to help. In this way, the weak become strong.

"yato dharmastato krishnah yato krishnastato jayah (Where there is dharma, there is Krishna and where there is Krishna there is victory). Dharma means truth, justice, purity, self-control and renunciation, all these. The Manu Samhita talks of dharma ­ dharma with its ten characteristics.

"And then there is this ­ jayastu panduputranaam yesham pakshe janarddanah (The victory, though, is of the sons of Pandu, on whose side is Sri Krishna).

"With Gandhi Maharaj’s support, Das Mahashay’s party has become strong. We were suspecting that they would now arrest Das Mahashay.

"What step will the government take now, do you know? Now, it will try to entice the Mohammedans. I am seeing this.

"Whatever the government may do, it will not succeed. It will not be able to keep India down for long. God wills that India should rise. So, it is that such persons are taking part in politics. Gandhi Maharaj and Das Mahashay both have renounced their all and embraced so many difficulties for the freedom of their motherland. The government will not be able to keep it much longer. India’s freedom is sure to come.

"Those who cannot see these good signs have been blinded by their attachments. The leadership that emerges out of complete renunciation in a selfless manner brings with it God’s power. All other powers are trifles compared to God’s power, nothing at all. Outwardly, one sees as if the animal power is winning, but it does not happen. At the end, the divine power is sure to win. The Vedas therefore says ­ satyameva jayate nanritam (It is the truth that wins not the untruth).

"A party fights to gain earthly pleasures, the other for the sake of God. Are these two similar? No, there is the difference of heaven and nether between the two. Yato dharmastato jayah (Where there is dharma, there is victory)."

A bhakta (to M.) ­ Can man know God?

M. ­ What kind of God He is if one can know Him? Knowing means knowing by your sensory organs, like one knows so many things ­ house, home, carriage, horse. How can you know Him with your senses? He is beyond all senses. avangmanasgocaram (He is beyond mind and speech).

"One begins to understand a little at the coming of the avatara. He cannot be known fully. There is a big expanse of a land. In the middle of it, there is a wall. One can see nothing beyond it. If a little hole is made in this wall, one sees a little of the beyond through it.

"Thakur said that the avatara was this hole. He introduced himself in this way, in the form of riddle.

"He asked a bhakta (M.), ‘Let me hear what that hole is.’ The devotee immediately replied, ‘You are that hole.’ He was very happy and said, ‘That is so.’

"Just as a father feels contented and expresses his joy on seeing his son’s ability, similarly Thakur expressed his joy on hearing this reply. It means that the devotee has recognised him as an avatara.

"But then is it the greatness of the devotee? No. He let him catch him. So he was able to hold him. He made him recognise him. So he recognised him. Who has the capacity to recognise Him?

"Thakur said, ‘God comes in a human body as an avatara, bringing with Him, all His essentials. The avatara is like the udders of a cow.’

"He said, ‘Just as the best part of cow’s body is milk and that milk comes from the udders, similarly, God comes in a human body even while creating and preserving the world and though He is omni-present.’ And he demonstrates to the bhaktas His highest wealth from that body, which consists of jnana and bhakti, discrimination and dispassion, peace, happiness, love and samadhi. These qualities are the highest wealth ­ they are the Self of Satchidananda.

"The greatest manifestation of Satchidananda is the avatara. Even if one understands a little of Him, the thing is done ­ the man is blessed, he is fulfilled.

"He said, ‘What need is there to touch the whole of the Ganga, from Gangotri to Gangasagar? Touch it at one place and you have had the touch of the Ganga. Similarly, having seen God in an avatara, you have seen God, you have known God. Avatara and God are one. Christ said, ‘I and my Father are one (John 10:30)’.

"Thakur used to call Satchidananda, God, as Mother. He also said, ‘Mother and I are one.’

"So, he said, ‘Think of me and it is done ... Verily, verily, I say, he who thinks of me will inherit my wealth, like the son inheriting his father’s wealth.’ "

M. (to the bhaktas) ­ The picture box man shows pictures to the children, charging them a paisa. He has pictures in his box. When he pulls a ring, a picture comes in front and the children see it through a glass. And then, he sings beautifully, ‘Just see, you have the Mecca city before you and now comes Kashi.’

"The children had seen all these pictures earlier, but they had not understood them. Reason? They were not involved in them. When a person has interpreted them they have understood.

"In the same way, we see all jivas, the world and all, but we don’t understand them. We also see the avatara but cannot recognise him till He makes us do so, till He interprets.

"Referring to this, Sri Krishna says:

[Fools disregard Me as one clad in human form, not knowing My higher nature as the Great Lord of beings. (Gita 9:11)]

"But when He explained to Arjuna, Arjuna began to sing this hymn of praise, ‘Devesha jagannivasa’ [O Lord of the Gods, O Abode of the universe! (Gita 11:25)].

"When the avatara interprets, one comprehends that God has created all beings, the world and the twenty four elements. And He is the driver. Otherwise, one thinks that they have all come of themselves. And, one cannot understand what they all are, why they all are and wherefrom they have come and then why man is born and why he dies, what is his end.

"When the avatara explains, one understands all this ­ this mystery is solved."

M. (to the devotees) ­ Experiencing is easy. One feels the breeze of the fan on the body and one knows that somebody is pulling the fan. One can even guess it without seeing him. This also is a kind of experience, knowing in a way.

"But seeing water, moon, sun, fire, air, fruit and flowers, anything at a particular time, one can guess that there is a person behind all that. He creates all these and He runs them. Once you have this faith, you have gained a lot.

"But there is something higher than that ­ to have His darshan, to be in His direct presence. The Lord comes to the devotees assuming some form. Thakur saw it himself and he showed it to the devotees.

"One day he said, ‘Here comes the Mother in a Banarasi Sari. Verily, I say the Mother has come.’ This darshan, being in Her direct presence is higher than just experience. He said so in a room full of people. Vijay Goswami and others were there too ­ almost all sceptics.

"Who can challenge what he said? Who has the capacity? Not only having darshan, but talking with Her! Besides, it conforms to reality.

"Whatever the Mother talked to Thakur while giving him Her darshan, Thakur narrated them to the devotees. And then, all those things actually happened, they bore fruit. How can then one say that they are all hallucinations of the mind?"

M. (to Mohan) ­ If God had not come as a man, nobody could have understand the fundamentals about God. He comes as a man and explains it. First he makes himself known, makes himself understood. Then, with the help of this knowledge, by analogy, the bhaktas can understand what is God. Lastly, he makes them understand that he himself is God. Those who have understood Thakur have known God. Thakur is the avatara. As the guru, he has told the devotees their personal places ­ the one each belongs to.

"The greatest manifestation of God in man is the avatara. The avatara tells man: Ye are divinities.

"The greatest work of the avatara is to make them know their reality. Then, he tells them how to enjoy Brahmananda (the joy of Brahman) easily and naturally by meditating on his form, lila and words.

"Thakur said, ‘Thinking of me is enough’ and he added, ‘I am avatara. By seeing me you see God.’"

Saturday, 8th November, 1924,

22nd Kartik, 1331 (B.Y.),

The twelfth day of the bright fortnight,

23 Dandas/35 Palas.