1.

M. (to Upadhyaya, pointing at his own body) — There are these three herein - thinking, feeling and willing. When the mind is exhausted the will tells us about it. He Himself has given this will-power to man. You have just said that you are going to the Math - this is the work of the will-power. Without will-power the world cannot go on. Our will-power however, is subject to God’s will. Being so it has a great scope. By working within this scope man can become god - he can see God.

"Suppose there is a cow. It is tied with a rope round its neck. The longer the rope the more the cow can move around in accordance with the length of the rope. This is within its limitation. This rope is like a man’s sanskara. A man is tied with his sanskaras. The master can increase the length of the cow’s rope. He can tie another with it. He can even untie the whole rope. In this way He can take the man beyond sanskaras or He can tie him with new sanskaras to it. He can even completely change the sanskaras. Thakur used to say: ‘The Mother, if there is a need, can make the hog-plum tree bear mangoes.’

"Mahimacharan believed that the man was completely subject to the result of his actions - he had to enjoy its fruit. Thakur, agreeing with this idea said, ‘Yes, the actions of his past life.’ And then pointing to his intimate bhaktas he added, ‘You people will not have to do much sadhana. Know this much and you will succeed: ‘First, who I am, and second, who you are’."

A certain Bhakta - It is true that anything can happen if God so wills. But does He add to the will-power of the bhakta if the latter so desires?

M. — Yes, he does add. It comes about when there is earnestness and great yearning. Thakur said, ‘When son has such a deep longing that he neither eats nor sleeps, the father sets apart (in advance) his share (of inheritance).’

Mohan — The Mundaka Upnishad has this mantra: Yamevaish vrinute, which has been explained by Shankaracharya as follows. Says he, ‘When a sadhak wishes to attain Him, He makes Himself available to him due to his strong will-power.’

M. — What else? The Upnishad talks of both - God’s will, and also that of the bhakta. Thakur says, ‘If you weep with a deep yearning within the Mother reveals Herself. During sadhana only the will of the bhakta matters. When one goes without food and sleep and cries, the father and the mother fulfill his desires.

"Thakur said, ‘The magnet attracts the needle. The needle also attracts the magnet.’ He once went to a bhakta’s house in the Haritiki garden without prior intimation. Seeing him the bhakta said, ‘Whereas I would have gone to see you there but you yourself have come instead.’ It was then that Thakur spoke as above.

"When the bhakta’s will joins with His, the bhakta becomes very strong. The weakling becomes mighty strong."

M. (smiling to Upadhyaya) — So you must be going to the Math.

Upadhyaya (interrupting) — Should I take something with me when I go there?

M. — Very nice, yes. Please take some sandesh (sweetmeats) and fruit.

Upadhyaya (restlessly) — No. I mean if should I give something?

M. — That can be done too. Pay a rupee as an offering for Thakur’s bhoga. But do so early. Don’t say you will pay in the (Math’s) office after pranam to the deities. And there say that you will have your food there? (With smiling eyes) Isn’t it good also to have a beating from the sadhus? What do you say?

Upadhyaya (unwillingly) — Y-e-s perhaps.

M. — All of your ancestors were teachers. That’s why you have the name ‘Upadhyaya’. The rishis were all gurus of the world, isn’t it? They conducted themselves in this very way. And all these teachings are also theirs. One should go to the sadhus in the spirit of humility to be blessed by them. One is blessed by just being in their presence. Besides, one must not cause inconvenience to them, as for example, by sharing meals with them directly without first asking or informing them. They are there after renouncing everything so as to be able to meditate on God without any worry. How great good luck we have that we can meet them? On the top of it to trouble them! That’s not right. One should go to them to serve, not to be served. One should go to them for their blessings not for blessing them.

2.

M. — And why not? Except God there is no real joy. Mohammed showed the way to this joy. How he loved the devotees! That’s why they make merry in his name even today. So many years have gone by yet they have not forgotten him. Nobody does anything for anybody unless he receives love from him. That’s why God comes in a human form from time to time to dispense love. Coming as Mohammed, He made a current of love flow over the dry desert land of Arabia.

"He proclaimed himself as the messenger of God, that is to say, a representative of God. The Muslims do not believe in the avatara. But Christ called himself an avatara: ‘I and my Father are one.’ (John 10:30). And he also said: ‘He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.’ (John 14:9)

Mohan — Why did Mohammed not say like Jesus that he and his Father were one? Rama, Krishna and Ramakrishna have all said that they are in connection of God. Thakur praised the discipline of Islam and had the darshan of a bearded man shining with light. He was none else but Mohammed - God.

M. — It only shows that the concept of avatara was not current in those days. Christ called himself the son of God, an avatara, he was crucified. If he didn’t say so how does it matter? What did he say? The power that he manifested from within proves that he was an avatara. Who but an avatara can perform such superhuman deeds? Rama, Krishna, Thakur, all of them proclaimed themselves as avatara to their intimate devotees. They did not say so to the ordinary men. To them they said they were devotees of God. Mohammed may also have said the same to some. After all, not everything could have been reported.

"Besides there is another fact. Mohammed proclaimed that God was without form but with attributes. As avatara He becomes God-with-form. This will be a contradiction. That is why God is without form but with attributes and Mohammed was the vehicle of His message."

"Even in the Upnishads avatarism lies latent. The Advaita Vedanta does not accept it. The Brahmo Samaj and the Arya Samaj also do not take it. Just look at the superhuman life of Mohammed. He said, ‘Only God is the master. Only He is great. Love Him with all your mind, soul and wealth. All else is illusory, perishable - it will not accompany you after death. Only the love for Him will accompany.’

"Aha, what a love which bound everybody! Before his departure from the world, he could not come to the mosque one day because of some illness. Some five hundred devotees began to wail not finding him there. When he heard their wails, he could not control himself. Leaning on the shoulder of another person, he came to the mosque. What a love he exuded! So long as the sun and the moon shine the story of this love will remain live remain alive."

Mohan — Some people say that there was another purpose of Thakur’s sadhana of Islam and of Christianity, besides the harmony of religions - to purify society. By Thakur’s practice of Islam and Christianity the difference among the Hindus, Muslims and Christians will be vanish.

M. — Perhaps it will be so. At the base there is only one - there is no contradiction here. There is but one Truth. Remember this, the external adjustment will be easy.

M. (to the bhaktas) — When God comes as an avatara the attraction for religion particularly increases. However, with time it gets diluted. Then He comes again. Even when there is a decline some flow is still there. The flow of the religions of the Buddha, the Christ and Mohammed are still going on.

"Now it is Thakur who has come. It is so very recent. This flow will remain for a long time even after him. Yearning for God is the very soul of religion. With the passing of time it becomes weak but flow is still there.

"It is God who sports as a deity, who sports in the world, and who sports as a human being. The sport of God as an avatara is the same as His sport as a human being.

"The two streams of good and evil have been flowing since eternity. The avatara comes and fortifies the good. The evil is then subdued. Then it again develops a form and is again followed by the stream of good. Thus the world goes on.

"Thakur said, ‘Hold me.’ On doing so the evil will then have no effect. It is his (Thakur’s) age now.

M. — I have been living in Calcutta for so long but I had never seen the celebrations at the Karbala tank. So I went there by Doctor Babu’s car the other day and saw it. We were too late. It was 9 o’clock. The celebrations were coming to an end, the joy of Moharrum. They were distributing sugar drops as bhog an offerings. - they also gave us prasad.

"Oh what a great love they have for Mohammed. His son and daughter had been killed cruelly. That is why they mourn. It happened thirteen hundred years ago and still they do it. How much love is needed for this!

"Why is there so much love for Mohammed? He has drenched his devotees with it. Only love begets love and without love no religion can be established. Fortunately we were with Thakur, so we understand a bit of it. Thakur bought his devotees with love. Can anybody ever repay his debt of love?

"On seeing these celebrations one can have a glimpse of why Thakur became a Muslim for three days."

Mohan — Mohammed had so many other qualities. He was three-in-one: the head of the state, the commander-in-chief and the religious perceptor. Considering how he built up brotherhood, the debt that the modern democracy owes to him comes to mind. He led a simple life - he himself stitched his clothes and made his shoes - he worked as a labourer with others while building a mosque. He used to help women in domestic chores. How much of compassion and sympathy he had!

M. — We only think of his love. Thinking of God as love he (Mohammed) had filled himself with love. A particle of this divine love can transform a man into God.

3.

M. — Thakur used to say, ‘The rishis were fearful but not Narada and others. It means that one should finish one’s work at the earliest. He said, ‘It is like wiping one’s mouth after eating a mango.’ The main thing is to finish one’s work. The khadi-kath (ordinary wood) flows away but the bahaduri-kath (a particular special wood) lifts up others also as it floats. The vijnani is fearless - he dances raising both of his arms. It means that he accepts God both with form and without form. When he is immersed in Brahman-jnana, he is joyous and when he is out of it he is still joyous. Reason? He sees that the God who is without form is also with form - that He is living among the world and the twenty-four elements.

A particular Bhakta — Did Thakur dissuade Pandit Shashadar from reading too much of scriptures?

M. — He said that it results in dry discussions. Is there no difference between sucking the pressed sugar cane and sucking a fresh one ? Read a little and then take to sadhana. It is no use reading the scriptures without inculcating discrimination, dispassion and the love for God. It only causes confusion. Thakur used to say, ‘The patient was sitting up. The physician came and made him lie down!’ And he also said, ‘The musical notation should be brought hands on in one’s life.’ He even said to the pandit, ‘What is the use of knowing the whole of the Gita with its commentary if there is no renunciation, no dispassion, no love for God?’ He said that the essence of the Gita was tyaga (renunciation) that is, to give up all just to possess God and to love Him. What is it like? It’s like bleating of a calf. When the cow hears the pressing bleat of its calf, it comes to it by itself.

Mohan — It is said that the jnani’s disposition is that of a frightened person. Here has the jnani been discouraged or has the bhakta been praised?

M. — No, here the jnani and the vijnani have been compared and not the jnani and the bhakta. It is the state of both of them after God-realization. The one who gets merged in Brahman, he becomes one with Him. The other comes back bringing with him the ‘I’ of Vidya (knowledge) and that of the bhakta. And on coming back, he sees that it is Brahman who is appearing in name and form, and the world - that everything is permeated with Brahman. Whom can he fear? He himself is Brahman. All creatures and the whole work are Brahman. Overwhelmed with jnana, Durvasa saw everything filled with Brahman.

"Thakur said the same to the Pandit, ‘First establish God-with-form in your mind. Later proceed to God-without-form.’ When one has practised Bhava-shakti (the power that It exists), it becomes easier to practise later the a-bhava (the vaccum or without form). It also from bhava to a-bhava and then from a-bhava to bhava - that is the entire circle. By Thakur’s grace his intimate disciples have progressed in this way. He brought Narendra from a-bhava to bhava and took Rakhal from bhava to a-bhava. Another devotee (M.) also, he took from bhava to a-bhava and then from a-bhava to bhava. He has asked for both jnana and bhakti together.

"Thakur used to say, ‘The essence is the love for Satchidananda, whether it be by the path of jnana or by the path of devotion.’ First of all, one has to practise the sadhana according is one’s bhava with all one’s effort. When it becomes established in the heart He reveals Himself in that very bhava. If He feels the need, He also shows himself in the other bhava. He used to say, ‘First go and see Jadu Mullick by any means possible. Then he will himself show, and tell, how much wealth, how much riches he has’."

Antevasi — He said to the Pandit, ‘You have become a ‘chhanabara.’ What does it mean ?

M. — It means that he was quite ready. The Pandit had been carrying on with puja, path (reading of the holy books), japa, dhyana and right conduct. So Thakur asked him now to remain immersed in the nectar for some days. In other words, he asked him to carry out tapasya for some days - to bring the notation to the fingers. The‘chhanabara’ is to remain immersed in the nectar of bhava and bhakti through tapasya after one has gained the knowledge of the shastras. How he said it: do it his for a few days. He knew that the Pandit did not have the inclination. That is Why he asked him it do a little.

Mohan — Let us dance raising both the arms - what is its significance?

M. — Nitya and lila both are true. The jnanis accept only Brahman and deny the world. Brahman accepted, the world denied. But, the nitya and leela belong to the same One. Those who are only jnanis, to them he says they are frightened persons. The jnani has been called a frightened person. But the vijnani has seen that the same Brahman has become the world, taking up all names and forms. So, Thakur said, ‘There is joy in merging the mind in the Indivisible One by meditating on Him. And there is also joy in keeping the mind in His lila.’ His was not a single-track mind. He believed in the nitya and the lila, both. Said he, ‘Both lila and nitya belong to Him.’ All this is a description of Thakur’s own state. It constitutes a scripture. People debate, don’t they, who is big and who is small or what is true and what is false. The man has only a small capacity. He lives only with one bhava and calls other’s bhava as false. Thakur has solved such a great problem of Vedanta by his direct spiritual experience. He said that the eternal Krishna is also the eternal bhakta. The gopis wanted the eternal Krishna. Thakur accepts both God-with-form and God-without-form. He used to say, ‘I hear there is snow in the north which never melts.’ This is an apt simile for the eternal Krishna.

The Elder Jiten — The other day we were talking of Thakur as saying: ‘The jnani living in the world is like one living in a glass-house from where he can see both inside and outside. And the all-renouncing person is standing as though in the open under sunlight.’ We have read the same today. What does it signify?

M. — For example the light of a lamp and the other of the sun. When one lives with one’s family, one’s mind remains attached to one’s house, family and so on. For the all-renouncing person, the whole world is one family. The sunlight, well, it is that of Thakur, and of Chaitanya Deva. All these are descriptions of his (Thakur’s) own states. The ‘all-renouncing’ person means Thakur, Chaitanya Deva. By Thakur’s grace, his devotees see the sunlight even while living in the world. This is a speciality of Thakur’s devotees. It is by Thakur’s grace that it all happens.

"To the Pandit he said: ‘Whether God is with form or without form, you must take a plunge. Be mad for Him. Love Him’ - whether it be by the path of jnana or by the path of bhakti. Religion is nothing but loving Him. The intoxication of bhakti’s love and the intoxication of jnana - both are true. When one succeeds in loving Him all doubts are dispelled by His grace. He shows all, God-with-form and God-without-form. The gopis possessed both Brahman-jnana and prema. Sadhana is needed."

Calcutta,

16th August 1924.

31st of Shravana 1331 (B.Y.),

The second day of the dark fortnight, 46 dandas/3 palas.