M. — It is my earnest desire that the Yogodyan of Kankurgachi should be acquired by the Math. The remains of Thakur are preserved there. Swami Vivekananda himself brought these relics in a brass pot on his head and installed them there. Besides, Thakur had visited this garden of Ramdutta Mahashaya. He sat in the drawing room at the ground floor. And he prostrated and offered pranam in the Tulasi kunj to the east of the temple there. And then Ram Babu lived there, always in the thought of Thakur. All these fires are still burning there. It is now a great place of pilgrimage. Ram Babu also breathed his last at this very place. I have been insisting again and again on sadhus and bhaktas to procure it for the Math.

"As for the Cossipore Garden, well it would be very nice if it is acquired by the Math. I am told that it can be had for about a hundred thousand rupees. Thakur was in that house for ten months. It was there that a group of bhaktas was formed. Thakur granted Nirvikalpa samadhi to Swami Vivekananda there. Whatever he had to give to the bhaktas he gave there in that place. It is there that he said, ‘He who was Ram and he who was Krishna is now Ramakrishna.’ In future people from all over the world will come to see these places just as one goes to Dwarika and Kushinara.

"All these places must remain with the Math. Reason? The Math is an organization with a long tradition. If they go into the hands of an individual, they will soon deteriorate. May be that a particular individual may run them with lot of devotion but in the hands of others, great harm can come to them. The sadhus of the Math have given up their all and have taken Thakur as their sole possession. Therefore, they will always earnestly and reverentially see to it that all these holy memorials remain safe. So, all the places associated with Thakur should be with the Math. In future they will become great places of pilgrimage for all - now they are sacred only for the bhaktas. With the passage of time Thakur’s name will spread more and more. And with it all these places will gain more and more importance. They will all become national monuments of the Indian thought.

"Just see, how many memorials to the war-heroes of the past are being adored. But in India the religious heroes have been worshipped since times immemorial. The great rishis Bhrigu, Vashistha and others came so long ago. Yet even today their names are known everywhere. How many persons worship Rama or Krishna as heroes? All of us worship them as incarnations of God.

"The rishis thought out loftily. Such thoughts of theirs never perish. Alongwith their thoughts, their names also keep floating on the waves of time. Why is it so? Because what they have thought out is immortal, the image of peace and joy. That is why people carry them in their hearts.

"People say this is good or that is good - such and such things bring joy and also those other things. But when this imagined joy ends and they see that there is no pure joy in this or that, then they realise that grief is a necessary condition of sensory enjoyment. It is then that they try to attain the supreme joy. The rishis have given us the direction to discover that very supreme peace. That is why such men are always worthy of our reverence.

"Seeing His creatures and His devotees floating on the sea of sorrows, God comes down in every age. He comes, revives and awakens the meditation on Brahman in a new way. The individual and the society then taste peace and joy.

"The rishis have called human beings as ‘the sons of the immortal bliss.’ How assuring! Like parents they say, ‘Children, whenever you really miss happiness and peace, take shelter in this great saying. Then your spiritual knowledge will return; your sleeping consciousness will wake up.’ Thakur as an avatara has left this very great word for us. Said he, ‘Whenever you don’t find real joy and peace, pray in this way: ‘If there is anybody at the back of this world let him arrange for my peace and joy.’ These are not the words of a man. God Himself has said so from his mouth. But the man does not believe. He is intoxicated with His maya. So He taught another prayer too: ‘Mother, don’t enchant me by Your world-bewitching maya. Mother, I take shelter at your feet.’

"The great words of the rishis and the avataras assume human shapes in every age. Conforming to time and place, the great spiritual souls create oasis of peace and joy in the desert of the world, so full of pain. The spots where the footprints of these souls have been made are known as centres of pilgrimage.

"Which thought is connected with Thakur’s name, which joy? The thought of the everlasting peace and happiness. Bhuma vai sukham na alpe sukham asti.

"Thakur taught how to fill the mind always with joy in this painful world - both with his words and with his life. It is like the game with little boats. Now Thakur is absorbed in the joy of Brahman - absolutely unaware of the world; next moment he comes down and sees that Brahman has Himself manifested in the form of the world and its creatures. Then he ulters, ‘Mother, Mother.’ He calls Brahman as Mother - sarvam khalvidam Brahman (Chhandogya Upanishad : 13, 14, 15) - All that is perceived is Brahman.

"He did not reject the world. He saw it full of Brahman. The steps and the roof are made of the same lime and brick dust. He tells us, ‘You are a child of a rich house. Live in the world knowing it as such. This is the knowledge of the Brahman. When you attain this knowledge, happiness and sorrow of life will not overwhelm you. You will remain steady in every condition. You will not lose yourself in toys. You will remember that you are the son of the Immortal Bliss.

"And he also says, ‘If the mind does not fix itself soon on Brahman, then try to see all the creatures as different forms of Brahman.’ Ishavasyam idam sarvam - everything in the universe abides in the Supreme Being (Isha Upanishad). Have faith in them. Be devoted to them. Serve them. By doing so you will gain a peaceful mind and with this peaceful mind you will experience joy in every condition This is practical Vedanta.

"In this way, what looks like two extremes, the two opposite looking thoughts, get reconciled - true to the kindred points of heaven and earth - he has joined them together from the point of view of Brahman. This insight makes one realize that the whole universe is permeated with Brahman - it becomes pure by the touch of God.

"The western evolutionists are not able to see in this way. Theirs’ is a lower insight - they don’t see the creator of the world. Darwin looks at the world with this lower sight. He says that man is the highest among all created beings, that man has evolved from organisms, from little insects birds and beasts gradually. They do not accept involution, they do not know that God is Himself living in all these forms. Only those who have realized the Self, the God, can have such an insight - these people see a great consciousness behind all creation. They say : sadaiv saumya idam agre aasit ekam advitiyam - the benign Lord is before everything. He is one without a second. Thakur makes it clearer and emphatically says, in this age of atheism, ‘What is there to discuss? I am seeing that the Mother Herself has become all this.’

"(Laughing) They were not able to find the ‘missing’ link. After a lot of research they said, ‘Monkey is the ancestor of man’."

A Bhakta - Seeing it with a lower sight, it seems to be correct. A lot of human intelligence shows itself in many actions of a monkey.

Another Bhakta — Thakur considered monkeys also. He said, ‘One day I saw a number of monkeys sitting in the Panchavati. So, peaceful they were as if they were in meditation. And a little later I see them behaving as they did in Lanka - jumping about, running here and there and creating a lot of confusion.’ Well, will these monkeys also attain liberation? Thakur’s sight did fall on them.

M. — Yes. There were many monkeys in Dakshineswar in those days. Even now one can see some of them. The monkeys had Thakur’s darshan. Blessed they are! If you ask, but did they know that he was an avatara? The answer to it is: but Thakur knew that he was an avatara. His holy sight fell on them. Don’t we believe in previous life? What is there to wonder at if they have been liberated by having his darshan. In Vedanta they say, one attains liberation in a human body. In the Bhagavata, the commentary on Vedanta, they say that like human beings, other creatures are also liberated by the grace of the company of avataras. Chaitanya Deva was asked why he didn’t write a commentary on Vedanta. He answered, ‘Had there been no Bhagavata one could have written it. The Bhagavata is a commentary on Vedanta.’

"The trees and all that there is in Dakshineswar and Kamarpukur are all gods, rishis and gandharvas. It is for enjoying the sport of the avatara that they assumed these forms. Thakur saw them all enveloped in divine light, that is to say, personified consciousness. By his grace some bhaktas also saw them as illumined beings. The bhaktas have also seen the trees and the other life in Vrindaban enveloped in a divine light - divinely illuminated is Shyam, divinely illuminated is his abode.

"There are but two sights - one is the sight of thought, the other is that of bhakti. In the eye of a bhakta all this is true.

"Thakur used to say, I have seen the Mother in Her aspect of God-with-form. And I have also seen Her as formless God. She is both with form and without form. Besides she has any number of other aspects too. There is no end to Her aspects. It is the same thing but there are two views of it.

"Those who have said that liberation comes in a human body are correct, the other belief is also correct. There is no contradiction between the two. They are complementary to each other. They have stressed birth as a human being. So the man may be conscious, he may make the fullest use of human life. What is impossible for Him who has created this universe in the twinkle of an eye and can also destroy it in the same way? All of you want a reason for all this. How far can your reason go? The moment the fever goes a little higher you begin to wail. You become unconscious - this helpless human intellect can not go far.

"Modern biologists only have the lower sight - a sight bounded all around. Solution to all problems can only be had from the point of view of the scriptures, the Vedas, the avataras. He who has uninhibited faith in Thakur, he who believes in all these, does not have to strain his intelligence. He is blessed by the garland of pearls of the Mother of the universe round his neck."

M. (to all present) — Oh, what an affection for bhaktas! His father beats Dwija at home. To save him from this ill-treatment Thakur becomes so humble before his father. (Laughing) what a wonderful man he is! How tactfully he mentions the faults of Dwija’s father: ‘Somebody said that you were a very worldly person, but that is not so.’ And he added: ‘If the son is a good fellow it must be understood that it is because of the holy deeds of his father.’ (Laughing) Thakur gave some sandesh to Dwija in the presence of his father. The father would think that he loves my son. This lover of bhaktas himself fanned Dwija’s father. Just see how he loved his bhakta. And he added, ‘Had I been well I would have myself taken you to the temple.’ Thakur sat beside him on the mat and then touched his body with his hands. It means that Thakur destroyed his bad sanskaras. So that he might not prevent his son from coming to him. See, that’s why a man can never pay back the debt of his Guru. The Lord takes upon Himself all the burden of His bhaktas.

"His grace fell even on Dwija’s father. He taught him by taking recourse to relative merits. His ego could have been hurt if Thakur had told him directly. That is why he spoke to him everything mentioning Dwija.

"Said he, ‘First turn your mind into gold before you live in the household - live like butter in the water.’ In other words, first become a bhakta of the Lord and then live in the household. Thus you will be able to distinguish between the eternal and the perishable. This is what is called discrimination. Smear your hands with oil before you cut the jackfruit. That is to say, dye your mind with Lord’s love before you enter family life. This means one has to attain the knowledge that he is a man of God, not of the world. God first, world next.

"When the bhakta knows these sayings from the Kathamrita he becomes strong in his mind. He has the assurance that God remains behind the bhakta and he always protects him. In such a case the bhakta gets half liberated in this very life."

M. — Just see how kind is Thakur to Mahimacharan. In how many ways he tells that there is a complete manifestation of the Lord in him (Thakur). Says he, ‘The Mother Herself is playing with the bhaktas within this.’ Even on hearing it from Thakur’s own mouth, Mahimacharan can not catch that the Lord is present in him. Thakur repeats this three times.

The Elder Jiten — Why is Mahimacharan not able to catch inspite of all this?

M. — Who is capable of catching Him unless He Himself lets one catch Him? This cannot be achieved by book reading. Only twelve rishis were able to recognize Ram as the Lord Himself. The others called him a man of spiritual knowledge. Mahimacharan says that by practising spiritual discipline everybody can attain the state of Thakur. Today Thakur has himself protested against this. He said, ‘There is something special here. This cannot be attained by spiritual practice.’ To illustrate his point, he said, ‘Though Totapuri had himself attained the nirvikalpa samadhi, seeing (me) attain Nirvikalpa samadhi in just three days under the madhavi, he said, ‘What is this!’. He could only understand it later - who was inside this. My father knew that Raghubir was with in me - Raghubir that is to say God.’

"He himself has kept this egoistic feelings in Mahimacharan’s mind. There must be some variety in sport otherwise it becomes monotonous. This also is a class (of bhaktas). He protected Mahimacharan’s way of thinking. He said, ‘Yes, the heart of the bhakta is the sitting room of the Lord.’ Mahimacharan thought that Thakur had that state because of his previous meritorious actions. ‘Thakur is a devotee of God, not God himself - this is how Mahimacharan feels or that everybody is God, and also that this divine state can be attained by spiritual discipline - I am Brahman."

A Bhakta — Is it maya (illusion) when one sees a small light in the room?

M. — Yes, that divine light, the divine power, is the source of maya. They say that the whole world is submerged in it. So it is said in the Gita that it is divine and that it has been created by God. The whole world comes under its jurisdiction. One can cross over only by God’s grace - Those who take refuge in Me, alone, cross this maya (Gita 7:14). This maya has hidden Satchidananda. This veil can be lifted only be His grace. The Chandi says that this Mahamaya plays even with the minds of the jnanis (men of spiritual knowledge). As long as one is in a body, one is under Her rule. Because She is so powerful, Thakur as a human being, always prayed, Mother don’t enchant me with your world-bewitching maya.’

The Elder Jiten — Thakur has said clearly that those people (Brahmos) have learnt the name of the Mother and Hari from here. But some of the Brahmos don’t accept it.

M. — The words of Thakur are ever true - it doesn’t matter who accepts them and who doesn’t. What is true must bear fruit, it always does! This is what Max Muller caught: where from did ‘Mother’ come to him (to Keshab Sen). On meeting Swamiji he understood that it was from Thakur that he had it. How far can the man’s intelligence go? Men think that they can make one big through intelligence. but this is not possible. Only God’s intelligence is the true intelligence, everlasting. That is why the words of Thakur are accepted by all the great men of the world. Nobody listens to those who thought that they could capture the fort with their intelligence. One does not know where they are - they are going down in the bottomless sea of the world.

The Doctor — Can one see God in a dream ?

M. — Why not ? Thakur has spoken of those who attain perfection in dream. Perfected-in-dream, perfected-in-moment, perfected-through-practice and ever-perfect, all these are true, so said Thakur.

The Doctor — Who is that bhakta who had the darshan of Chaitanya Deva in a dream? And who has also had other darshan in the wakeful state?

M. — There are some devotees who wish to remain hidden. So they are not named. This bhakta (M. himself) and Narendra (Swami Vivekananda) were both influenced by the Brahmo Samaj. That is why they were suspicious of their divine visions in their states of dream and wakefulness. So Thakur said, ‘Yes, these days Narendra sees visions in the state of wakefulness.’ On hearing of this bhakta’s darshan of Chaitanya Deva in a dream Thakur was in tears, and overwhelmed he exclaimed, ‘Aha, Aha!’

M. (to the bhaktas) — How amazing is the sport of the Mahamaya! Thakur said six or seven times: ‘God has entered into this.’ Even then the veil of Mahimacharan’s mind didn’t get lifted. Thakur also said, ‘Those who come here must know these two things: first, who I am and the second, who they are.’ Even then Mahimacharan could not understand.

"If he wills, anything can happen - he can completely transform Mahimacharan in a moment. Then, why doesn’t he do so? The answer is: Variety is necessary in lila. Here Thakur elucidates man’s nature! Faith and reason. He said to a devotee (M.), ‘Promise that you will reason no more.’ But there he accepted Mahimacharan’s view that anybody can become the Paramahansa Deva by taking to spiritual practise. Why did he accept it? We may say that it was for two reasons. First, so that even a not so worthy person may take to sadhan. And second, Thakur was all purity - without any knot - a man of numberless, boundless moods. Whichever be the mood of a person at a particular moment, he would assume that bhava. Though Mahimacharan is in a lower level mood here nevertheless it is a mood, so he agrees to it. When Mahimacharan carries out sadhana in that state of mind and does not see the shore he will imbibe faith and self-surrender. He will then be able to understand the meaning of that great saying: ‘Who I am and who you are’ - when he knows it, he will attain."

Mohan — Thakur said, ‘He who calls upon God from within will have to come here.’ ‘Will have to come here’ - if it is that, it is nothing but fanaticism. In the Shakta, the Vaishnava and the Christian belief, they will convert people to respective their belief to attain liberation.

M. — No, this would not amount to fanaticism. He also said: As many religions, so many paths. He said this after practising all the religions. He did not ask himself to be worshipped. That would have been fanaticism. What he said means that the Shakta, the Vaishnava and the Christian must take to sadhan of their own variety. But when he attains earnestness, that is, he begins to yearn for God, he will at last understand that his own ideal deity has now assumed the form of Ramakrishna. Is this being intolerant? Basically the Brahman and Shakti are not different from each other. It is from that basic conception that Kali, Krishna and Christ have come. Everybody must follow his own religion. When one becomes earnest one understands at last that one’s own ideal has manifested itself as Ramakrishna. Mishra Sahib saw Thakur as Christ. Having offered pranam to Mother Kali when he lifted his eyes he saw Christ on the pulpit. The Bible talks of God and Simian. He did not accept Christ as his ideal Deity. But since he was earnest so he, overwhelmed with joy, worshipped the child Christ in front of the pulpit knowing him to be an avatara. Christ had not yet been taken as an avatara. He was just one month old. It is said that many a Christian and Muslim bhaktas were fulfilled on coming to Thakur - this was before his intimate disciples arrived.

"It is not religious intolerance. Truth (it is). This is a proof that Thakur was an avatara. Basically there is but one truth - it’s manifestations are many, and ultimately it remains one truth."

Calcutta,

Friday 15th August 1924.

30th of Shravana 1331 (B.Y.)

1st day of the dark fortnight, 48/27 palas.